.name Grandfathered

(neil.fraser.name)

915 points by p4bl0 1 day ago

Previously: .name Termination - <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49550772">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49550772</a> - Sept 2026 (547 comments)

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giancarlostoro 1 day ago | 0 points

> After a long and expensive battle, news just dropped that Verisign is retracting its plan to terminate 22,000 domain names and email redirects. Although they will be closing new registrations for 3rd-level .name domains, all existing domains (including this website) and email redirects will remain indefinitely.This was what I figured SHOULD happen when they did this. Allow existing customers to keep renewing, but nobody new allowed, if a tld frees up over time, reclaim it completely and sell it off.What they were proposing should really be illegal...

Spivak 1 day ago | 0 points

For it to be illegal I think we would have to have much stronger digital ownership laws. I would certainly support them. But for now a domain you "own" is just an entry in someone else's ledger and control is only enforced by contract for big players willing to pay.

schoen 1 day ago | 0 points

There is a Ninth Circuit decision that domain names are a form of property<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremen_v._Cohen" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kremen_v._Cohen</a>but it's tricky because the domain name registries and registrars have a kind of thicket of contracts nowadays that subordinates registrants' property interests to other rules and considerations. So I don't think a court would think that a modern-day domain name registrant has property rights in a domain name that supersede all of those contractual terms.Edit: my recollection is that Kremen v. Cohen interpreted the legal defaults that applied because Kremen registered the domain name in an era when Network Solutions didn't require registrants to agree to a contract that limited Network Solutions's liability and gave it various explicit rights and powers.I'm not a huge ICANN expert, but I think ICANN broadly thinks the status quo is preferable to one in which registrants had stronger, less equivocal property interests in names.

otterley 1 day ago | 0 points

The Wikipedia summary of the case suggests that the ruling was much more than it was. Courts tend to rule on narrow issues, as it did here.The question before the Court was not whether a domain name is a form of property. Both parties agreed that a domain name is a form of property; that wasn't in dispute. The Court did affirm their shared position in black letter law, though.Rather, the question before the Court was whether, as intangible property, a tort of conversion claim relating to the domain name could be made under California law. Previously, cases disagreed as to whether it could be recognized. The Court found that it could be.

trollbridge 23 hours ago | 0 points

Thanks. That was an excellent summary.

cromka 9 hours ago | 0 points

> status quo is preferable to one in which registrants had stronger, less equivocal property interests in names.I suppose the fact we pay for them annually reflects that we're merely the renters, not owners of the domains.This model also makes it possible for companies/brands to take over ownership of the domains they feel they're entitled to.

falcor84 1 day ago | 0 points

Agreed, but I just wanted to say that essentially every single thing anyone owns is, and has been from the invention of tally marks on clay tablets, an entry in someone's ledger.

graboy 17 hours ago | 0 points

This is too reductive. There's been real development behind what it means to own something. What's written in a ledger is just an inscription it has no meaning outside of its social context.Our social understanding of property has changed. John Locke's ideas on private property are so fundamental to how we think about ownership that we don't even realize there would have been another way of thinking about how we own things.<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property#History" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_property#History</a>

stevage 23 hours ago | 0 points

Of all the thousands of things I own, as far as I know, only my car and my house exist in anyone else's ledger as belonging to me. Am I missing something?

unreal37 20 hours ago | 0 points

I would find that hard to believe. You have a bank account, surely. A life insurance policy? Airline points? An account with the government social security office for your pension? There are probably dozens (if not hundreds) of things of value (even if the value is near zero) that exist in someone else's ledger.

wongarsu 12 hours ago | 0 points

But equally hundreds if not thousands of things a typical person owns isn't recorded in any ledger. The personal laptop currently in my lap, my clothes, my furniture, my pen and notebook, the cash in my walletSaying all ownership are just ledger entries is just as reductive as saying no ownership can be reduced to ledger entries

tremon 10 hours ago | 0 points

I think the GP used "things" to mean physical property. Your bank balance and saved merchant points do not exist as tangible things.

cowlevel 22 hours ago | 0 points

All of your property exists in a kind of implicit ledger that a court can reify when needed. If a court decides your bed isn't yours, then it isn't.

sokoloff 20 hours ago | 0 points

Your 401K. Your brokerage account. Your bank accounts.

warkdarrior 20 hours ago | 0 points

Your phone will show up as yours in some Google or Apple database.Your credit/debit cards (really your credit card accounts) will show up as yours in some bank database.Your laptop may show up as your in some Apple/Microsoft/Google account.

Calazon 23 hours ago | 0 points

The money in your bank account?

dexterdog 20 hours ago | 0 points

Don't forget about the money in your wallet as well since you don't control the printer.

lukas_builds 3 hours ago | 0 points

and don't forget about your money in your house you don't control your wife

fc417fc802 17 hours ago | 0 points

> for now a domain you "own" is just an entry in someone else's ledgerWell yes, that is literally what you are purchasing after all. Else alternative DNS schemes such as GNS would presumably be made illegal in the event they shadowed any "owned" mark. I don't think anyone would want to live in a world where adding an entry to your hosts file was a crime.ICANN DNS can be approximately described as renting an entry in a global equivalent of the yellow pages.That said, strong digital ownership laws would be a good thing. Publishers (games, books, music, etc) shouldn't be permitted to yank titles you paid for on the basis that you only licensed them. Neither should registries of names, ICANN or otherwise.

mzajc 1 day ago | 0 points

These domains wouldn't be worth a penny if they came with a disclaimer that they can be deregistered or even taken over at any point. With a bit of luck, somebody could snatch popular last name domains and set up a catch-all mailserver.

not2b 1 day ago | 0 points

People persist in "buying" digital movies e-books, and games despite the fact that they can disappear at any point, without warning, because the seller's license expired or they just feel like discontinuing the service.

mfru 12 hours ago | 0 points

The seven seas have always been there, just a matter of building a ship again

cannonpalms 20 hours ago | 0 points

These things have no resale value. That's what the commenter means when he talks about value.

TheGoddessInari 22 hours ago | 0 points

License as a SERVICE ™

ierukah 14 hours ago | 0 points

LaaS

schoen 1 day ago | 0 points

They do have such a limitation, because of things like UDRP. It's just that there are maybe some forms of restriction on the processes by which domain names can be involuntarily transferred or seized. But it's a real possibility!

jldl805 14 hours ago | 0 points

I literally have <mylastname>@gmail.com as my primary email address. I get a lot of email that's not supposed to go to me.

bookofjoe 22 hours ago | 0 points

Yes. Otherwise I'd be happy to give you a GREAT price on all the movies I've "bought" from Apple and Amazon as well as myriad Kindle Books.

echelon 1 day ago | 0 points

Now a "{first}.{second}.name" will be really awesome to own.This is essentially premium real estate now. For us nerds, anyway.Great job Neil and gang!

Macha 1 day ago | 0 points

Well anyone can buy a second.name if second isn't already registered, and then set up their own first. subdomain, so most visitors aren't going to know the difference in between grandfathered in first.second.name sites and people who just bought second level domains and created their own subdomain.

jareklupinski 1 day ago | 0 points

if you're lucky, you can do something like first.sec.ondworks for many polish people who own ski resorts :)

jayknight 1 day ago | 0 points

I remember when delicious.com was just del.icio.us. I miss that site.

BHSPitMonkey 20 hours ago | 0 points

The documentation site for WLED is <a href="https://kno.wled.ge" rel="nofollow">https://kno.wled.ge</a> which I've always found to be adorable

hackboyfly 23 hours ago | 0 points

My dyslexia would go bonkers.

ceocoder 19 hours ago | 0 points

I managed to get my name - dhaiv.at

DANmode 1 day ago | 0 points

> What they were proposing should really be illegal...Where?

gsich 1 day ago | 0 points

Everywhere.

DANmode 1 day ago | 0 points

Super reasonable proposal.

colonwqbang 22 hours ago | 0 points

What a useless comment.The Berne Convention on copyright is ratified by "182 out of 195 countries". If I were to recite The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy in public almost anywhere in the world, I can be sued for it.Maybe we need a Reston Convention on the right not to have your domain arbitrarily seized and sold to someone else.

DANmode 22 hours ago | 0 points

I don’t even know where to start rebutting your comment.You can be sued for downloading NES ROMs, too. Make a point?PS The Copyright and IP thing is pretty unique, and is often held as an example of the US’ true power and influence to protect its corporate interests.

dirasieb 10 hours ago | 0 points

in countries with running water and elections

nticompass 1 day ago | 0 points

WHAT‽ I let my "first.last.name" registration expire because of the impending shutdown!I did notice that my domain kept working past the supposed shutdown date, but I let the domain registration expire.I'm so mad now! I assume there is no way to get my domain/email forwarding back :(I suppose I could try to ask the registrar, but I highly doubt they can do anything...(Edit: I'm not actually mad, but it was annoying to have to move accounts from my first@last.name email to another one)

mzajc 1 day ago | 0 points

I don't know about .name specifically, but some registries have a grace period (or multiple) after which you can still renew it. It's worth checking if you're within the time limit.

nticompass 1 day ago | 0 points

That's my plan. If they can help then cool, otherwise it's not really a big deal.

mixdup 1 day ago | 0 points

They haven't actually stopped taking third level registrations, so get in there before the revised proposal gets submitted approved and implemented

Panda4 23 hours ago | 0 points

I think they did. I tried to register one just now and couldn't

troyrollo 23 hours ago | 0 points

This is a registrar issue not a registry issue. There are registrars still allowing registration of .name domains as well as transfers in.

grimgrin 22 hours ago | 0 points

Any reason you didn't mention them? Seems handy. I couldn't find an example registrar accepting 3rd level name domains.

edoceo 1 day ago | 0 points

First time ive seen ! and ? overlaid. Neat.

chch 1 day ago | 0 points

For future reference, ‽ is called an interrobang!And to show off another fun character, for languages like Spanish that start a question with an inverted question mark, there's also ⸘, the inverted interrobang.Though I find the name some people call it, gnaborretni (interrobang backwards), much sillier.

serchinastico 1 day ago | 0 points

Interesting! If we were to follow Spanish to name the inverted interrobang it'd be opening (and closing) interrobangs, not gnaborretni, just as we don't have nóicagorretni nor nóicamalcxe :)

murphyslaw 1 day ago | 0 points

I assume you meant sgnaborretni?

BadBadJellyBean 1 day ago | 0 points

It's called an interrobang. Never really took off but still available in unicode.

BoxOfRain 1 day ago | 0 points

While it won't lessen your frustration, I applaud your use of the interrobang. That punctuation mark needs wider use.

nticompass 1 day ago | 0 points

I'm not really frustrated, but it is annoying that I had to migrate accounts and stuff, but whatever.And yes, I love the interrobang! Ever since I mapped scroll lock to "compose" on my keyboard, I've had fun typing all sorts of characters :)

blooalien 7 hours ago | 0 points

> Ever since I mapped scroll lock to "compose" on my keyboard, I've had fun typing all sorts of characters :)I've used <Caps-Lock> as <compose> key for ages now, and <Scroll-Lock> as push-to-talk microphone activation key, since I never use either of those keys for their actual purpose anyhow. Is nice being able to easily type emdash and umlauts and such (as well as several common emoji and a bunch of other useful stuff) on a US keyboard.

lutoma 1 day ago | 0 points

I have an auto substitution set up in iOS to automatically replace ?! with ‽ (Same for ellipsis, ... to …)

oneeyedpigeon 1 day ago | 0 points

And, presumably, "!?"?

Spivak 1 day ago | 0 points

It's a neat little mark but I don't think it has much of a chance being widespread because I think ?! has already won in real usage and doesn't have the fine detail problem. I think it has a better chance of becoming an official grammatical digraph than the merged mark.

sillysaurusx 1 day ago | 0 points

Is there an overlaid ?? and !! mark? (For Chess.)

adrian_b 1 day ago | 0 points

Besides interrobang, Unicode includes all 4 possible sequences of 2 "?" and "!".<pre><code> 203C;DOUBLE EXCLAMATION MARK;Po;0;ON;<compat> 0021 0021;;;;N;;;;; 203D;INTERROBANG;Po;0;ON;;;;;N;;;;; 2047;DOUBLE QUESTION MARK;Po;0;ON;<compat> 003F 003F;;;;N;;;;; 2048;QUESTION EXCLAMATION MARK;Po;0;ON;<compat> 003F 0021;;;;N;;;;; 2049;EXCLAMATION QUESTION MARK;Po;0;ON;<compat> 0021 003F;;;;N;;;;;</code></pre>

zimpenfish 23 hours ago | 0 points

There's DOUBLE EXCLAMATION MARK[0] and also DOUBLE QUESTION MARK[1] if those will do.[0] <a href="https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/203c/index.htm" rel="nofollow">https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/203c/index.htm</a>[1] <a href="https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2047/index.htm" rel="nofollow">https://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/char/2047/index.htm</a>

echoangle 22 hours ago | 0 points

‼ ⁇

tremon 8 hours ago | 0 points

Those are not overlaid though. The overlaid doubles would look like ! and ?, respectively.

reaperducer 1 day ago | 0 points

I don't think it has much of a chance being widespreadI first heard of it back when Usenet was still the hotness.Apparently it's been around for close to a century, so if it hasn't caught on widely by now, you're probably right.

ahnick 23 hours ago | 0 points

> I first heard of it back when Usenet was still the hotness.This is the first (and probably last) time that I will ever see the words "Usenet" and "hotness" in the same sentence.Well done, sir.

saalweachter 1 day ago | 0 points

It lost when computers overtook typewriters.On a typewriter, you could type one punctuation mark, backspace, and then type another.Even once computers added the interrobang to Unicode (or older systems), you either need to type in a numeric code, use a secret bucky bit, or select it from a graphical UI, none of which is worth it for more than the odd weirdo with a whimsical streak.

wlonkly 3 hours ago | 0 points

COMPOSE-!-? (and COMPOSE-?-! for the inverted interrobang)

kevin_thibedeau 22 hours ago | 0 points

There have been video terminals that allowed overstriking glyphs.

_blackhawk_ 1 day ago | 0 points

Definitely email the registrar. Maybe it might work?

nticompass 1 day ago | 0 points

Worth a shot.

andunie 18 hours ago | 0 points

Basically every decision taken by a centralized entity with power over others results in these horrible cases of unfairness.

soupbowl 1 day ago | 0 points

It is best to stick to the main top level domains. I bought into multiple 'new' domains and most of them caused me issues. A few of them jacked up their prices like crazy compared to when I first bought them. They can also be difficult to move between providers.Unfortunately I am stuck in commitments on a few of these domains and just had to eat the cost increases, the rest I moved to .com/.net..consulting was the worst offender.

pmdr 23 hours ago | 0 points

> It is best to stick to the main top level domains.Yes, I view most 'new' TLDs as scams. They lure you in with a low price, a rather pricey renewal and then price hike after price hike down the line. They also charge a premium for most dictionary words right from the start.

jeroenhd 9 hours ago | 0 points

So far, my "new" TLDs seem absolutely fine. I tend to stick to good ol' .nl, but .space and .art have had consistent prices (except for the first year discount you see on every TLDs). I've also never had any issues with my .zip domain. Prices seem to be practically the same as prices for a regular .com domain.Some of these (.xxx, .consulting, .bank) are run by grifters, but those were generally quite obvious from the start. Consultants are expensive money sponges so obviously a TLD dedicated towards consulting will be a money sponge.As for dictionary words: at least they're still available, even if they're expensive. You're never getting $dictionaryWord.{info,com,org,net} without a deal with some kind of middle men scum buying up domain names to treat them as investment property.

fc417fc802 17 hours ago | 0 points

> It is best to stick to the main top level domains.I'd counter that it's best to stick to ccTLDs as opposed to gTLDs (with the exception of com/org/net I guess). You can assess the stability of a ccTLD based on the associated political situation and any legal questions typically have a clear jurisdiction whereas gTLDs are a total crapshoot in all regards.

thesuitonym 6 hours ago | 0 points

Indeed. Whenever I start a project, part of the naming decision is making sure nameiwant.com is available. It's hard enough to get people to type .com or .net. I can't imagine trying to direct anyone to email inquiries@soupbowl.consulting.Even if I really wanted a different vanity domain, I'd make sure I owned the .com and it was aliased to the domain I want to use.

p4bl0 20 hours ago | 0 points

.name is not a "new" TLD it was introduced at the same time as the .info, a bit more than 25 years back. It's not one of the new mostly scammy gTLD.

wodenokoto 22 hours ago | 0 points

Author has had his .name domain for 25 years, so not exactly new.

drschwabe 18 hours ago | 0 points

These names can be better than .com/.net for branding so it may be best viewed as advertising cost.Like if you make video softaware and it's called "Emerald" then Emerald.video is imho a be a better domain name than emeraldvideo.com (and probably taken already) provided .video is not a gouging you on the annual renewal and is not calling it a 'premium' domain and reserving the right to hike up your renewal at any point in the future to any amount they decide.

thesuitonym 6 hours ago | 0 points

That's actually not good for you, though. Even today, people still struggle with domain names. At best, they won't notice what your domain name is, at worst, they're going to try to go to emeraldvideo.com or perhaps even emerald.video.com.More realistically though they're just going to search emerald video and go to whatever the top spot is. Hope your SEO is on point!

troyrollo 18 hours ago | 0 points

There is a residual cleanup problem with registrants who were with Tucows/OpenSRS and had their domains come up for renewal since late August. Tucows would not renew them and it was hard for registrants to find another registrar that would. Doytchin spent quite a bit of time looking and I think the only one he found that would accept a transfer of both the third level domain and the email forwarding service was 007names.This meant a lot of domains expired. Worse, some entered the Redemption Period, where they can no longer be transferred to another registrar - the only option is to redeem through Tucows and they will not do it.The practical solution seems to be: 1. If the domain is expired but still within the grace period, transfer it now; 2. It it entered the redemption period, wait until it becomes available again (up to 35 days) and re-register through a registrar like 007names to recover it.Quite unsatisfactory on the part of Tucows (the biggest registrar of third level domains by far), to let all this happen and they really should offer subsidised redemption for affected domains in the redemption grace period.

derhuerst 1 day ago | 0 points

previous discussion on the predecessor post, 69 days ago, 547 comments: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49550772">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49550772</a>

dang 20 hours ago | 0 points

Thanks! Macroexpanded:.name Termination - <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49550772">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49550772</a> - Sept 2026 (547 comments)

kwanbix 1 day ago | 0 points

Why would they even want to close it? It is probably close to 0 cost tot hem. Or am I wrong?

lambda 1 day ago | 0 points

It works differently than pretty much every other TLD, which means it's different code paths to support.Many registrars don't support the unique 3rd level domain setup for .name, so it can be hard to find registrars that properly support it.There's also an associate email redirect service, which is unique to .name and probably costs money to run and maintain.It's probably easier to support, and more valuable to sell second level .name domains.Pretty terrible that they were considering just dropping tens of thousands of customer registrations however.

charcircuit 1 day ago | 0 points

How is it different than others like .co.jp or .ne.jp?

lambda 1 day ago | 0 points

Those ones have a fixed list of second level domains..name was something where you could register a two part domain, picking both the third and second level, to represent your first and last name.

elAhmo 12 hours ago | 0 points

So you could own my_name.lastname.name, and someone else could own their_name.lastname.name ?A bit weird, as to me the first part reads like a 'subdomain'.

wlonkly 3 hours ago | 0 points

Messes like this is why we have to maintain the Public Suffix List,[1] but even then, .name caused problems.[2]"Do we need to do this? Softer walls exist to beat our heads against."[1] <a href="https://publicsuffix.org/" rel="nofollow">https://publicsuffix.org/</a>[2] <a href="https://github.com/publicsuffix/list/issues/2306" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/publicsuffix/list/issues/2306</a>

LucasOe 7 hours ago | 0 points

Yes, that's how it works. lastname.name is the TLD.Firefox highlights neil as the subdomain for fraser.name for me, but there's no subdomain involved in the URL.

seattle_spring 1 day ago | 0 points

> It works differently than pretty much every other TLD, which means it's different code paths to support.but I was told that AI has made code obsolete and free

swiftcoder 1 day ago | 0 points

It has weird interactions with some modern browser features. For example domain isolation doesn't apply between subdomains of the same TLD, so john.smith.name and drew.smith.name don't get isolation in naive implementations.

troyrollo 23 hours ago | 0 points

The public suffix list is a stupid hack that should be replaced by formal protocols allowing boundaries to be defined by either DNS entries, or a file on the web server.

JoshTriplett 21 hours ago | 0 points

I personally think the public suffix list should be replaced by zero sharing even amongst subdomains, and if you want to talk between x.y.example.org and example.org you can use CORS just like any other cross-domain request.

londons_explore 20 hours ago | 0 points

I think the real challenge is the millions of sites which rely on the existing behaviour.

JoshTriplett 20 hours ago | 0 points

Do it for every new TLD. Do it for every new domain in an existing TLD. Add an opt-in for security, then start pushing for the security measure, then get browsers to start carrot-and-stick enforcing it...It's possible to make things better.

sgammon 12 hours ago | 0 points

Ah yes the millions they broke with CORS

OkayPhysicist 1 day ago | 0 points

The real problem is that we'd have to add a wildcard to the public suffix list. That's it.The public suffix list is the big list of all the URL suffixes that should not imply shared ownership of all their subdomains. For example the linecomsays "XYZ.com" and "ABC.com" should not be assumed to be controlled by the same entity.Problem is, all 1st level domains registered to the .name TLD should be added to the list, and that's a lot of domains. The correct answer, IMO, would be to add a wildcard*.namebut that would involve updating all the code that relies on the public suffix list to support said wildcard.

somat 20 hours ago | 0 points

The "real" problem is the public suffix list. All domains should be considered public, that is, a sub domain gains no trust from it's parent domain.There is a good argument that the public suffix list should be distributed via dns, and it is easy to propose a scheme for it. Two I know of are. A specific public suffix record marking a domain public or private. The presence of a soa record which already transfers the authority of a domain, should be used to determine if that sub domain is public or private.But private unless in some third party list is the worst way to handle it.

toast0 23 hours ago | 0 points

*.name isn't a good solution either, because the vast majority of registrations are at the second level.If you want to do it properly, you really do need to include all of the second level domains that have more than one third level registrant. And update that periodically as domains expire... there might be three registrants under .example.name today, but if they all (or all but one) stop paying, example.name is no longer a public suffix and it should be removed.

OkayPhysicist 23 hours ago | 0 points

Having "no cookies shared between subdomains" as a restriction on the entire TLD isn't completely beyond the pale. There are other TLDs that have restrictions, like HTTPS being required for .dev

toast0 22 hours ago | 0 points

Having it imposed on existing registrants after the fact really is beyond the pale, IMHO.It'd be one thing if it was there since the beginning, like https for .dev, but it would probably break existing sites if you add it after the fact.

londons_explore 20 hours ago | 0 points

With only 22000 registrants, the number of sites broken might be just a handful.

toast0 19 hours ago | 0 points

It's not 22000 registrants for .name, it's 22000 registrants of third level domains. There's lots more second level registrations in .name; it is massively more popular to register a second level domain, but it wasn't always an option.

thbb123 20 hours ago | 0 points

How can they enforce that? If my DNS config points www.mydomain.dev to my vps, what can prevent me from answering on port 80?

swiftcoder 12 hours ago | 0 points

No cookie sharing between subdomains is enforced client-side, not server side.

tylergetsay 1 day ago | 0 points

wouldn't that be a problem with a lot of other domains? like locality domains

timeinput 1 day ago | 0 points

It definitely is. <ingress>.k8s.<mydns>.com regularly confuses what password I want to use if I have different authentication per ingress. More commonly if I run something else at <name>.<mydns>.com firefox and chrome are both happy to offer up my password for <other service>.<mydns>.com.Closed. Wont fix.

OkayPhysicist 1 day ago | 0 points

We solve that problem with the public suffix list. The problem is there's a lot of .name domains, each of which would need to be added to the list.

mixdup 1 day ago | 0 points

yes, but other locality domains are fairly static and well-known.co.uk wouldn't have the same problem because everyone knows that combo is a TLD in and of itself. with a seemingly infinite possible combinations of blah.name that could be a TLD itself, or, might just be a subdomain of .name, it gets really weird

toast0 23 hours ago | 0 points

> with a seemingly infinite possible combinationsVerisign claimed approximately 22,000 third level domains [1] in July 2026. I don't see an estimate of the number of shared second level domains, but it's finite. The current public suffix list includes 10414 names [2]; so at maximum, the list would approximately triple in size --- not ideal, but feasible.Edit: another post [3] claims approximately 2000 second levels names with multiple registrations; that's only a 20% increase in size for the existing list, which is again a lot, but feasible. There's some more specific data in an issue for the suffix list [4], that shows there were nine second level domains with multiple registered names underneath them, one of which might all be the same registrant (domain.name)...Nine would be totally doable, if the request came from Verisign...[1] <a href="https://itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/consensus-policies/fessenden-to-kane-2-voided-28-07-2026-en.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/consensus-policies/fessen...</a>[2] including some with wildcards, re: your other post[3] <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50446780">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=50446780</a>[4] <a href="https://github.com/publicsuffix/list/issues/2306" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/publicsuffix/list/issues/2306</a>

mixdup 20 hours ago | 0 points

22,000 now, but there was no limit and more importantly no rhyme or reason or other way to tell what was a third level registration and what was a subdomain on a normal second level registrationVerisign could have published a list of every third level registration, it wasn't an impossible problem to solve, but it is different than static regional TLDs like .co.uk or .<state>.us

clickety_clack 1 day ago | 0 points

My thoughts also, but maybe they can make more from a few sites like baby.name than they can from personal domains.

nikanj 23 hours ago | 0 points

There would be great money to be made if you could auction off domain.name, instead of being stuck just getting $20 per year because some geezer registered his.domain.name.

mlefer 1 day ago | 0 points

I wonder why couldn't Verisign just grant most people the second level domains here. I imagine there aren't too many people holding onto 3rd level .name domains here and the set of people holding onto 3rd level domains that share a second level domain with someone else is probably very small, a few hundred at most.For all the ones holding exclusive second level domains, just give them the second level domain. For all the ones holding shared second levels, offer a buyout and/or allow parties to negotiate with each other on a shared ownership structure of the second level.

toast0 23 hours ago | 0 points

I suspect for most of the second level domains, there's only one registrant of a third level domain.However, I also suspect that for most of the third level domains, they're on a second level domain with multiple registrants. And several of those shared second level domains will have a lot of registrants. If the registrants are in different jurisdictions, it becomes a pretty nasty process to develop international consensus, vs just keeping the status quo going (which IMHO, can't be that hard).Still, it makes sense to have a process to normalize the single registrant second level domains, because less work.

troyrollo 23 hours ago | 0 points

22,000 third levels total, spread across about 12,000 second levels, about 10,000 of which have only one third level. Of the approximately 2,000 with multiples, many have all of the third level registrants being apparently close relatives.That leaves quite a few with lots of unrelated registrants, mostly in Japan (tanaka and suzuki being the biggest).

p4bl0 20 hours ago | 0 points

Most japanese third-level .name domains were registered with YahooDomains.co.jp which ceased its activities in 2025. Almost none of them have been transferred elsewhere so there's no response to DNS requests for them…

p4bl0 20 hours ago | 0 points

I got hold of the complete .name zone file. Indeed, it contains 22117 third-level .name domains among which 10372 are unique under their second-level.See <a href="https://p4bl0.net/post/2026/10/VeriSign-is-VeriShit" rel="nofollow">https://p4bl0.net/post/2026/10/VeriSign-is-VeriShit</a> (I haven't yet had the time to update that blog post with this last news discussed here).

Tepix 1 day ago | 0 points

Vive la résistance!Resistance is not futile.

cobbzilla 1 day ago | 0 points

> to my lawyers Jan, Flip and Diégo who threw the book at ICANNResistance with a strong case and competent lawyers is not futile.

dataflow 1 day ago | 0 points

And with a lot of money to burn.

padjo 9 hours ago | 0 points

Great to see a sane outcome but if I relied on one of these domains I'd still be moving away from it. Clearly they have no desire to maintain it.

slow_typist 23 hours ago | 0 points

Nicely done. (I moved a few family email accounts from .name to .net years ago because it was a much cheaper option and the .name TLD was still so uncommon in our bubbles it led to questions when they gave their email addresses to someone else.)

exploderate 6 hours ago | 0 points

Weird, I registered a 2nd level .name domain years ago and never knew about 3rd level...

listedb 10 hours ago | 0 points

Is Verisign’s promise to keep at least one registrar supporting third-level domains and email forwarding written into a binding agreement or is this the only announcement?

origini 1 day ago | 0 points

I have bought my *.name domain a decade ago? Why was this ever a thing? Was there some limitation i'm to stupid to get or did one company just register some common last names?

ZeWaka 1 day ago | 0 points

for specifically third level registrations

origini 8 hours ago | 0 points

So they offered third level registration for all non taken domains?

Arrowmaster 6 hours ago | 0 points

They only allowed third level registration for years and opened up second level registration much later in a profit seeking move.The TLD was created in the "email will be THE way to contact you digitally" hype and marked on having a first@last.name email.

codexon 1 day ago | 0 points

The title of this submission is misleading. This is only for "3rd level" .name domains. The title makes it seem like normal .name domains were being deleted.

damoe 1 day ago | 0 points

A few years ago I was able to register <first name>.<last name> I was so excited until I realized how potentially precarious the domain was. My established domain is <first><last>.<forever tdl>. I'm not too worried about it having a problem (although as some have mentioned here I wish we had more rights, as individuals, to this IP). So I keep the new domain more as a personal toy...

zamadatix 1 day ago | 0 points

Congrats to those wanting to keep their domains! I'm surprised they went with perpetual (well, as much as anything is) support, i.e. allowing renewals and such rather than just letting it naturally expire (the initial proposal was to immediately cease these records at a given date with no clear communication on how they'd be protected or not from re-registering the upper level domains or not).

greyface- 23 hours ago | 0 points

Can anyone speak to which specific registrars support setting email forwarding settings with these domains?

a1o 1 day ago | 0 points

How does one register a domain under .name ? I can’t find info through search because it discards the dot no matter what I try.

delecti 1 day ago | 0 points

Start from the TLD lists. <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_top-level_domains" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_top-level_dom...</a> led to <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.name" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.name</a> led to <a href="https://www.verisign.com/domain-names/name-domains" rel="nofollow">https://www.verisign.com/domain-names/name-domains</a>

toast0 1 day ago | 0 points

Same as any gTLD, pick your favorite registrar and they probably support it. Give your registrar money, they'll give the registry money and boom. (more or less)When .name was new, you may have needed to contract with the registry directly, it was an early new gTLD and I don't remember if they started with the registry/registrar split or not.Afaik, new registrants are not able to register a third level domain, but second level domains have been available for a long time.

SahAssar 1 day ago | 0 points

Available under standard registrars that offer many TLDs, like inwx.com: <a href="https://www.inwx.com/en/domain/check?domain=testtest123.name&region=DEFAULT&avail=true" rel="nofollow">https://www.inwx.com/en/domain/check?domain=testtest123.name...</a>

peesem 1 day ago | 0 points

but which support the actual third-level domains? for example, my last name is already taken as a .name domain by verisign, what if i want my firstname.lastname.name domain?

xigoi 1 day ago | 0 points

The third-level domains are still being discontinued, it’s just that people who already have one get to keep it.

vanjoe 19 hours ago | 0 points

Is domain.co.uk handled differently?

Kwpolska 11 hours ago | 0 points

Yes, because the list of second level .uk domains where domains can be registered is fixed.

scott00 1 day ago | 0 points

Gandi and 007names are the only ones I'm aware of that support the third-level domains.

mercurywells 1 day ago | 0 points

You'd have to try to find the contact that owns lastname.name and work out a private deal - you won't get ICANN protections though.

zamadatix 1 day ago | 0 points

One can't (officially) register such 3rd level domains anywhere anymore.It's just a combination in the ambiguity of what "it discards the dot" should mean in GGP's message combined with the article already clarifying 3rd level domains are not available on .name anymore leading to a lot of confused comments.

lambda 1 day ago | 0 points

Did you read the link?"Although they will be closing new registrations for 3rd-level .name domains, all existing domains (including this website) and email redirects will remain indefinitely."They were apparently planning on shutting down the whole TLD. They will be leaving it up for existing registrants, but not allowing new registrations.

ksala_ 1 day ago | 0 points

No, they were not planning that. This is only about 3rd level domain as the paragraph you quoted says. Every other TLD don't sell those (afaik). Normally "someone.name" would be a domain, and they would own all the subdomains. .name allowed you to register "one.someone.name" and "two.someone.name" as completely separated domains with completely separated owners. I understand why they should grandfather in existing domains but this was just madness.

lambda 1 day ago | 0 points

Ah, fair enough. I kind of thought that third level domain registration was the whole point of the .name TLD, so I was interpreting it as shutting it down.So the weird part then comes in: are all second level domains that have third level registrations now reserved? Do they stop being reserved if the last third level registration expires without being renewed?

toast0 1 day ago | 0 points

> So the weird part then comes in: are all second level domains that have third level registrations now reserved? Do they stop being reserved if the last third level registration expires without being renewed?Yes, second level domains that overlap with a registered third level domain have never been available. Under the original proposal, once all the third level domains were dropped, the overlapping second level domains would have been available (first come, first served). I believe current practice is the second level domain becomes available if all of the third level domains expire. Registrants in other threads indicated that there's no process to have an orderly transition from being the only the registrant of a third level domain under a specific second level name to registering that second level domain ... you would have to let your current name expire and hope to catch the second level name.

ksala_ 1 day ago | 0 points

Good question. Yeah no idea - the email linked in OP says they're going to send a new proposal, I'm assuming it will cover how they're planning to handle it. And I guess that yes blocking second level domains that have a third level already registered is the pragmatic choice.

troyrollo 22 hours ago | 0 points

They are grandfathering existing third levels and existing email forwarding services. The new RSEPs will just discontinue offering the services as new services, with Verisign saying they will take responsibility for ensuring that there will always be at least one registrar who supports both.

duskwuff 1 day ago | 0 points

> I kind of thought that third level domain registration was the whole point of the .name TLDIt was initially! But there was enough demand for second-level registrations that they opened that up too (and set the stage for this whole mess).

ChrisRR 11 hours ago | 0 points

Are the running costs of a single tld that high that is was worth getting rid of?

zen_mike_eu 15 hours ago | 0 points

This type of posts is why i keep comming to YC. I love finding out about small bloggers and stuff like this

doublepg23 1 day ago | 0 points

I've had a .name for almost a decade now and was not aware of it's history.Shame I didn't register on my lastname .name , I had thought it was a much newer gTLD.

bilalabdullahi 1 day ago | 0 points

They shouldnt this easy to take away tbh

walthamstow 1 day ago | 0 points

> thanks to ... Jim who flew to Bali to make the case to ICANN in personWhat the heck is ICANN doing in Bali of all places?

erk__ 1 day ago | 0 points

Its where their yearly general meeting was hosted: <a href="https://meetings.icann.org/en/meetings/icann87/" rel="nofollow">https://meetings.icann.org/en/meetings/icann87/</a>Last year it was in Spain and the year before it was in Mumbai.

wmf 1 day ago | 0 points

It's NGO pork disguised as woke inclusion. Meetings in Africa or Asia Pacific are (theoretically) cheaper for historically disadvantaged people to attend.

sgammon 12 hours ago | 0 points

Counterpoint: Bali is a place with internet. The internet is a global thing. I like that the meetings move around.I’m not sure how the people of Bali are “historically disadvantaged.” From what perspective? Where I live, comparatively, I am historically disadvantaged in my access to nice sunny beaches.

Hendrikto 11 hours ago | 0 points

It is just an excuse to get your company to pay for your trip to Bali.

calebio 23 hours ago | 0 points

Kind of off-topic, but I wonder what will happen to .io in the end.

Xirdus 23 hours ago | 0 points

Most likely nothing. .su was kept around and it was million times smaller than .io is now.

Kwpolska 11 hours ago | 0 points

On the other hand, .yu was removed four years after Serbia and Montenegro dissolved.

andunie 18 hours ago | 0 points

For people who rely on DNS as if it wasn't a shitshow, the mere fact that this was a possibility should be an eye opener.A new decentralized name system is necessary.

RagnarD 21 hours ago | 0 points

Here's what I don't understand: if Verisign is too lame to continue handling .name domains, why wouldn't ICANN insist that it auction off that TLD to someone who isn't, and just take control of it and do it themselves if they don't?

thbb123 20 hours ago | 0 points

I've spent the past month setting up a new domain and feverishly tracking every contact and website that had my address to update what needed to be. Glad to know it was for nothing.And one good aspect of this is that I hope I'll get less spam as a result.

asdfasdkljfhkah 1 day ago | 0 points

Thousands of .name owners nearly became .gone owners. Nice to see Verisign choose the one migration plan every engineer secretly loves: don’t migrate anything.

xydone 1 day ago | 0 points

Certainly nice to know they would've almost certainly proceeded as normal if the concerns didn't blow up online

toomuchtodo 1 day ago | 0 points

<a href="https://itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/consensus-policies/kane-to-fessenden-05-11-2026-en.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://itp.cdn.icann.org/en/files/consensus-policies/kane-t...</a>Success is possible. Well done to all.

charlieyu1 1 day ago | 0 points

Good for them. I just wish I could register a new .yu domain…

eloto333 1 day ago | 0 points

I want to edit this comment.

kinabalu76 1 day ago | 0 points

glad this got resolved, bummer it was thrown into question at all

hoppp 23 hours ago | 0 points

Congrats!!

xyst 1 day ago | 0 points

I wonder how much the midterm elections influenced Verisign in this decision to bend the knee in this "David v Goliath"-esque win.I was expecting for Verisign to take this to court, drag it out, and bleed the opposing party out. I suppose the judges that Verisign lawyers depend on did not get favorable re-election.Ofc it’s probably something less nefarious, and boring. Verisign probably did some basic math and determined that taking this to court with their army of overpaid lawyers was simply not cost effective compared to just supporting 3rd level domains.

sparkling 1 day ago | 0 points

If you are into stories about weird and obscure domain happenings: <a href="https://eualternative.eu/guides/bulgaria-bg-private-registry/" rel="nofollow">https://eualternative.eu/guides/bulgaria-bg-private-registry...</a>

eks391 1 day ago | 0 points

So glad this happened. When I first heard, I assumed that all the folks wronged would simply be disregarded even though Verisign was blatantly breaking consumer protection laws (I assume. If it wasn't, those laws are incomplete). The fact that Verisign even tried still makes me upset though. It's really annoying what several companies will do as long as their hand isn't forced due to legal or social repercussions

bibimsz 18 hours ago | 0 points

im about to register one. what should i get?

reliep365 18 hours ago | 0 points

Reliep.Com

charcircuit 1 day ago | 0 points

It's disappointing that only .name got this treatment. ICANN should grandfather all domains. The idea that it's perfectly fine for domains to just disappear is ridiculous.

greyface- 22 hours ago | 0 points

Even if domains were permanent, nameservers and webservers would still disappear as their operators drop offline. The Internet and the Web are impermanent and require ongoing upkeep on multiple layers.

spicybright 22 hours ago | 0 points

Yes, but if I want to pay a register yearly for a domain and do nothing with it it shouldn't be able to be taken away.

greyface- 21 hours ago | 0 points

I, too, dislike the approach we've landed on of everyone placing complete trust in IANA, and having to engage politically with them or their delegates from time to time. Unfortunately, the trustless regions of Zooko's triangle are worse.

troyrollo 22 hours ago | 0 points

The requests for reconsideration are now part of the permanent public record - with the arguments now there for anybody to pick up in future, it is quite unlikely that there will be a repeat of this in any GTLD registry. The dodgy non-ICANN subdomains (like eu.org) are a different issue, but if you use them you take your risk.

charcircuit 18 hours ago | 0 points

Domains like .ai and .io are at risk.

account42 11 hours ago | 0 points

Those were always the domain of the respective administrations just like any other ccTLD, unlike .name which is under ICANN rules.

minimaxa 21 hours ago | 0 points

Well done, sometimes it's about the principal.Why do they care about third-level domain names anyway, not really much admin costs leaving them active.Now you can join us in 2026 and work on your website design and remove that hideous lavender background color? :)

not2b 1 day ago | 0 points

I'm glad that the article writer got his domain back, but I wish we had a better term than "grandfathered". The origin of this term goes back to Jim Crow, when to stop Black people and newcomers from voting, many places in the American South imposed a near-impossible test you had to pass to register to vote, but also added a loophole: if your grandfather voted in your county (or sometimes your state), you could vote without taking the test. This was called the grandfather clause.

wvh 11 hours ago | 0 points

As a non-American speaker of English, it's a word. Let the word be itself.

EnergyAmy 23 hours ago | 0 points

This sort of priggishness belongs in the past, let it be

tln 1 day ago | 0 points

"Legacied"

spicybright 22 hours ago | 0 points

Too nerdy but I really like this one.

dist-epoch 1 day ago | 0 points

So, turns out Verisign is not the Devil incarnate?

brettermeier 1 day ago | 0 points

Why do you think that???

cobbzilla 1 day ago | 0 points

The Devil is no match for a sufficiently talented attorney

NateEag 1 day ago | 0 points

c.f. Benét: <a href="https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0602901h.html" rel="nofollow">https://gutenberg.net.au/ebooks06/0602901h.html</a>

mh- 1 day ago | 0 points

In 1997, this was explored in a documentary featuring Keanu Reeves.